Curse

Banebow · Aug 27, 2005, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Is it just me, or does every group that goes into the thunderhead keep mission abuse this glitch? When I told my party that I would leave if they did this, they did it anyway (and I left, got called a puss by one of my former 'teammates' as well) When I said 'mesmer looking for a group for mission (if you intend to abuse the glitch, I WILL leave) I was called a crybaby and a pussy.

Is the entire guild wars comunity really full of a bunch of sissys who can't do this mission the right way?

I freely admit that when my monk did the mission, the party he was in used the glitch. And you know what? It wasn't worth it. Maybe my views on this are a bit...strong...but it feels way to much like cheating (call it abusing a glitch if you want, to me they mean the same thing)

Am I the only one who sees things this way, or are there others who also share my views?

And please, no arguments about how this is your Xth time through this mission and you just want to get it done. This is my 6th time working on it, and I have only grown more against the abusing of a glitch to win.

let the flaming begin I suppose, though it would be nice if some constructive comments also showed up

-H. Banebow

PS: Sorry for the rant, I just feel like players will do anything to win these days.

PSS: Sorry if this is the wrong forum, I posted it here since it is mission-related

Mana Garmr · Aug 27, 2005, 08:00 PM // 20:00

I actually only found out about that glitch last week and I don't really see the point in using it anyway. So you get to kill 6 jades early, big deal. If they were going to cause you that much trouble then you're probably going to have a hard time doing the mission anyway. Hell, running all the way out there seems like it takes longer than just letting them come to you later.

Lost · Aug 27, 2005, 09:11 PM // 21:11

People keep thinking that killing those Jades will really make a difference on the mission. I highly doubt groups that kill them have a higher success rate. People just do it because they heard someone else do it and think it will help. Plus, it's "cool" to use glitches. I never really think of it as cheating though because it really doesn't effect the outcome of the mission.

On a similar note, there is another glitch I've recently noticed that makes Thunderhead Keep extremely easy. The only problem is I don't know how to trigger it.

Kampfkeks · Aug 27, 2005, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Yeah it seems to be real common to abuse that little glitch. Not that it would give any advantage at all. 6 Jades you say? hm, i'm quite sure they're still standing there when you killed the final thing of that mission and just avoid to speak to the king (you know... there are really nice chests out there...)
When i was helping a friend today i was forming a party and as soon as we got to the fort a person said we should go through the gates and acted like it was a good thing to do. I told him if he would exploit it he would be real dry on healing.
Guess what? He left the group right away.
Guess thats just typical exploiter behavior. And honestly the mission is not too hard at all. Well sometimes it may seem real hard and i experienced it too, even with groups that acted all great there seems to be an evil ghost in the fort telling the group to panic as soon as the mursaat are incoming Oo

Honestly, most of the times i failed there, it was due to a total panic when something did manage to break through and people were running around like chicken from that moment on. The ones at the catapult would allways stop firing... the trapping ranger would do a chicken run to the king.. the warriors would allways chose the most long way to defend the king and basically everyone did manage to get out of healing range in a real short time... wipe.

The really hard part about that mission is morale and frustration. You're just bound to have a little marvin on your team in that mission...

Gwahir · Aug 27, 2005, 09:49 PM // 21:49

all you gotta do is sit on the king. no running around or even catapulting is needed. Just get a semi-decent group. And just sit there waiting for people to come. I've done it with my W/Mo and henches like this.

Will Atreides · Aug 27, 2005, 10:03 PM // 22:03

I agree 100% with Banebow ... exploiting glitches is merely a substitute for skilled, tactical and strategic play. If you can't handle 6 Jades you shouldn't be at Thunderhead! ... another unfortunate by-product of the use of hired runners - unskilled players in high level areas.

EinValentine · Aug 28, 2005, 12:13 AM // 00:13

There are so many other things to get your panties wadded over I can hardly see getting all bent out of shape over this particular example. As has been pointed out it makes no real difference in the difficulty of the final battle either way so it falls into a big "so what?" as far as I'm concerned.

But if as you say, you advertised the fact that you wouldn't stand for it before the mission started then you were perfectly wihin your rights to bail. Now, if you had only informed folks of this when you got to the keep and then bailed you deserved every nasty name thrown at you.

Oh and kudos to you for having the chutzpah to make any demands whatsoever while seeking a party in PvE as a mesmer. That takes brass. Hard enough finding teams as one as it is.

Banebow · Aug 28, 2005, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by EinValentine

As has been pointed out it makes no real difference in the difficulty of the final battle either way so it falls into a big "so what?" as far as I'm concerned.

It's not the difficulty of whether you did it or not, it's the ethical reasons. If you say that ethics don't belong in a game, well, I take that as a point of view rather that a fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EinValentine

Now, if you had only informed folks of this when you got to the keep and then bailed you deserved every nasty name thrown at you.

A valid point, to be sure. However, I will not be on a team that cheats, and I told them so once they started making plans of heading outside through the gate. They did not listen, and so when the went out, I left.

EinValentine · Aug 28, 2005, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

It's not the difficulty of whether you did it or not, it's the ethical reasons. If you say that ethics don't belong in a game, well, I take that as a point of view rather that a fact.

This smells like someone trying to claim a moral highground that isn't there to claim. There isn't any competitive aspect here that needs to be addressed. Neither the servers nor the devs are going to have their feelings hurt if you walk through the walls and off a few Jades. It is the same type of action as cheating at solitaire, and while you can make a good argument for this being completely pointless, unethical is another story. Sooner or later the devs will fix the issue and that will be that.

The ethical concerns only arise in dealing with the intra-party conflict, since unlike solitaire a group is involved in this game. But neither side has any built in moral highground here. You seem to be trying to set yourself up to say "I play the game right so I'm more ethical". Which is debatable. The only really immediate right and wrong in the situation is who behaved like the bigger creep, and who stomped on whose enjoyment more. Which is, of course, highly subjective.

Now personally, had I been in the group I would have been just as happy to accomodate you as not, since I actually have a certain amount of respect for playing the game as it was meant to be played, not because it is ethical, but simply because it tends to be more satisfying. Of course these sorts of concerns tend to fly right past the crowd whose idea of intellectual stimulation is drawing genitals on the minimap and making racist jokes, so I tend simply for the sake of sanity to adopt a go-with-the-flow attitude. If I got up in arms about all the stuff that bugs me I'd never actually get around to playing the game.

EverBlue · Aug 28, 2005, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwahir

all you gotta do is sit on the king. no running around or even catapulting is needed. Just get a semi-decent group. And just sit there waiting for people to come. I've done it with my W/Mo and henches like this.

That's all you need to do. It's quite simple. You have 4 main paths to protect, with them coming at you two at a time. Sometimes four, if you're slow, but big deal? You have 8 guys. You don't even need a real monk, just need to watch the King's health up to that point, and use henches as you camp the king.

The glitch is really stupid, as there's nothing out there to take advantage of. Sure, the six jades are out there, but that is to dissuade your group from making an attack on the gate when units are spawning out of it.

Banebow · Aug 28, 2005, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by EinValentine

seem to be trying to set yourself up to say "I play the game right so I'm more ethical".

I did not mean to imply that in any way, perhaps I missused the word. What I should have said was, I consider this a choice between cheating and not cheating. If you do not consider this cheating, then you would have no problems with it. But since I do consider it cheating, I can not agree to doing it.

I certainly do not consider myself above anyone who does use the glitch, as I mentioned I used it on my monk. I just now choose not to use it now.

EinValentine · Aug 28, 2005, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

I did not mean to imply that in any way, perhaps I missused the word.

I think we don't really disagree, then. I'm just wary of discussions of this type taking on a moral tone. Perhaps I've read one too many flame wars about using god-mode or it's equivalents in other games. People get rather strident.

Midnight_Maiden · Aug 28, 2005, 07:12 AM // 07:12

The Keep is difficult enough a mission without bitching about whether or not you are going to go through an invisible hole in the gate, which nets you the death of 6 jade which you would have to kill anyway, so no bonus gained....you could always walk out the gates after killing dorian before talking to king to gain your chests (which for me had nothing but gold and were not worth the effort).

I spent 10 hours at the keep with different groups from henchies to warm bodies. 8 hours of listening to people whine, bitch and moan and then insist on going off and doing their own thing, disregarding instructions, not being infused, refusing to get infused, going afk or in the case of one monk simply letting us die and then laughing.

After 8 hours I called out an offer to pay experienced monks to help. After finding one very nice monk who helped us in beating the mission I realized the mission itself is not hard, getting everyone to co-operate is the hard part. The monk had beaten the mission and everyone co-operated and followed his orders, we got through first time, no deaths, and that was with two members who had not even attempted the mission before, one of whom is a L18.

On a side note, as a mesmer I have never had problems getting a team - perhaps it's the slinky little black dress?

Once I got to the ring of fire I was regularly pm'd to ask what kind of mes I was.... interrupters and back firers are valuable team members!

One and Two · Aug 28, 2005, 05:00 PM // 17:00

This is not a hard mission. And there are more enemies out the gate except the six jades....shhhhh!

Getting a good group is the hard part, i'd agree. I always laugh when someone advertises themself...
LFG EXPERIENCED WARRIOR
or
LFG GOOD RANGER
and stuff like
group forming ELITE and GOOD people ONLY

what bs...

get the right people....there are plenty of necros and mesmers out there that will listen and play as a group...that get ignored. And no i dont have a mesmer/necro...although i want to make one (stupid 4 character slots!)

Mystic_Karnas · Aug 29, 2005, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Yeah, I as a mesmer, decided to make my own group, consisting of:
Myself: Water/domination denial
Elementalist: Hydromancer with ward against harm (we both had ward vs harm so that worked out well)
Ranger: Barrager
Ranger: Trapper
Elementalist: Pyromancer
Necro: Blood
Monk: Protection with a few healing spells that would help to keep the king alive
Menlho: Better healer than most people

I got past the mission with this team, while everyone lstened to the seasoned experts, and listened to my strategy. It's not hard if you get a good group.